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Ser_Fergus

The 'Barring of myself'

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So I've created this thread so I can have somewhere to put all my thoughts about why I have not joined nova diplo in one place. There's been a metric fuckton of argument over it in the last few weeks, and I think it's about time to re-institute my 'no claims without screenshots' policy. You say person 'x' said 'y', you better be willing to use the search function to prove it. I will *probably* add to this at some point, because I've had to hurry this out the door to make a due date. 
 

So look, here’s the key fundamental of what I want; I don’t want to be in a diplo where the person in power is both wielding authority, and beholden to none. Part of why I like the Salty Ds, is that it’s explicitly bors creating something that is entirely laissez-faire. He doesn’t have grand plans, rules or anything like that. It’s not what diplo is right now, it’s what diplo was in about 2013. You can see this in the system I helped build; there’s no one there who holds all the cards. But both nova diplo and diplo gaming are an evolution of that; they have events, grand plans and money. There's not anything inherently wrong with that, but it demands a higher level of insurance than a wc3 clan. 

 

So I have two very similar questions in my inbox about why I’m not on Nova Diplo. Meanwhile, you guys attack people for saying bad things about you guys, and then I get things like this 

ED3AM8ASisxgJMnnzv3bh2wurGs9039XL3XqU2N5CAzx2V5dyKLaBj5rtcZxGgq4QOtBqxJ2FbXlSol8XQYWbn4ZSpw6eodP7R9Xux2Bc2mtz2G_5VE5qXuVHCBXVD74RSkaeYEL

In my inbox, and what am I supposed to say to this? The irony is *probably* not lost on ABDeL, so what point in making this statement, other than to be hurtful? I’ve been having these same arguments for ages. The reason I've stopped responding is that neither phal nor abdel seem to be willing to acknowledge that my distinct desire not to be in a system where someone holds all the cards as a valid one. 


That is a fundamental desire, hammered in in my upbringing.
XsAk4GQgUhj5q9IyrM8YRUCdCW8M64oS-pGFhMClK_lJlqGZdQN5hJSQeb2KqZGZgig-1-KaWDQXAMATfkN7tVrLk9Eaf1JEIcNk2NRWIhQFnIBQ6sdwhHvPT0hsYOqfxKss38zo

In many ways van has once again succinctly put what I could not. These arguments keep descending into defending my own character with ABDel. 
kiSbzCYgKmJF2fQcINATHIPa5oGVgq4FxJyYV5ink79Now3QfYk_-Dxy36wnLOf3qSe34BX2rdMkJsoGX61DJeOyKRvmWFO1L3wdX8TMMO0FgSa83q2b0CNYhS6zjpOCYwixcxQj

In these you can see one of the harder issues; ABDeL and Phal are not a consistent body. I can't argue with both of them about the same issues but with different angles. Am I supposed to believe that Nova Diplo was established purely to spite cniper, or because people didn't want the reforms I was producing? Who knows, because the two most senior people there disagree. 
 

85HDpRrc-wE2WVY2vKDpyatWYI0G4-hS9O0WamrQ0fw_ZUK7QsyZOxzDZAlJRogOoinT9930aRoYvBIhbuRzLqZVawwUDJS1bElFzb9znViQN_u3W5ZvC1jNZi95fRLK6ybung5r

As for arguing with Phal, how can I do so if the arguments are based on foundations that are *fundamentally* untrue? 

image.thumb.png.9701e35294ea2b172982edbcb663d621.png

And then we get into this final issue, which is your guys arguments don't seem to be reflecting reality any more. Phal, you are discussing issues so far into the mists that you do not remember them correctly, and I have to go digging to disprove it 

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(Example) 

And finally so that I can show I've danced this little dance before. 

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To make clear my thesis: I believe that Diplo should not be run by a single person, and should not be only about gaming. It's a discussion forum equal parts a gaming one. Hence why I advocated for a discussion community lead, and why the current diplo hierarchy is so crowded. But I'm tired of having to fight against a verbal bulldozer to disprove it. I argued with feanor for many years, and at least arguing with Feanor revolved around him finding smaller and smaller nitpicks until victory. But here? The same argument just keeps getting dragged out, a new coat of paint thrown on it and then thrown at me. Without evidence and screenshots, none of this matters. 

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I could refute the points you posted, but whats the point? How about you stop being transparent only when it makes you look good and makes others look bad?

If you really want me to care how about your arguments share the entire chat.  But you wont because you cant. The chat reveals a context that is lost on the reader when a sliver is cut out to defame this way. 

I'm pretty sure you know that Fergus so I won't give your poor excuse of a hit-job the validation of a refutation. 

That being said,

I'm pretty sure Van is a big boy who can fight his own battles, which I might add, he started. He spread unfounded stories about me. Every lie that came out of DG was related to him in some way. I can't say for certain that it was him in every case but something certainly stinks in his vicinity. Every attempt at discovery of what his real grievances were resulted in more toxicity and defensiveness.

His poor attempts at double binds won't slow me down from scrutinizing his bullshit excuses for being toxic towards me. If someone has beef with me they can say what their beef is or hold their peace. Everything Van does proves that the only reason why he hasn't explained his problems with me is because, deep down, he realizes that they don't hold a candle to scrutiny. Otherwise it would be out there. He'd tell me and people would agree with him. But he knows he's wrong. In addition, Van wishes death and bodily harm upon me, dragged my family into this because I trolled him with a playlist and here you are still defending our exemplar of the community. If you wanted me to take this seriously, you wouldn't have made this mistake in addition to your first. 

In closing, my favorite Surah from the Quran:

1. “Say: O you disbelievers,"
2. “1 worship not what you worship,"
3. “Nor do you worship Whom I worship,"
4. “Neither shall I worship what you worship,"
5. “Nor will you worship Whom I worship,"
6. “To you be your religion, and to me my religion.”

If you dont want to be part of Diplomunion, thats fine. Don't be. I just think its sad. Your'e all adults who can make your own choices. Just keep me out of it. Don't talk about me and just leave me be. Build something of your own that makes you proud, and don't try to change mine. I've made my peace that I can't please everyone and I certainly can't please you. 

At the end I think my system is better because I'm not an ideologue and I match my temperment and attitude to those who approach me. To those who treat me with respect, I'll treat with twice more. To those who treat me with scorn, the same. Everything will be out in the open and nothing will be hidden. 

Edited by Abdel

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You have access to those chats too, Abdel. If the context is so important, post it yourself. 

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Nah I'm good.

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4 hours ago, Abdel said:

 

I could refute the points you posted, but whats the point? How about you stop being transparent only when it makes you look good and makes others look bad?

If you really want me to care how about your arguments share the entire chat.  But you wont because you cant. The chat reveals a context that is lost on the reader when a sliver is cut out to defame this way. 

 

Which chat? I'm happy to dude. I did the one I think you mean, but it doesn't change that much 

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Like, this isn't supposed to be a hit piece at all. It's just me explaining why I wasn't responding to phal's question about why I wasn't on diplo. I thought it was another attempt to rehash the same argument, although I've learned that the two of you have much more separate ideas of what is and isn't a reason to be there. 

4 hours ago, Abdel said:

If you dont want to be part of Diplomunion, thats fine. Don't be. I just think its sad. Your'e all adults who can make your own choices. Just keep me out of it. Don't talk about me and just leave me be. Build something of your own that makes you proud, and don't try to change mine. I've made my peace that I can't please everyone and I certainly can't please you. 

 

I mean, we'll still talk about you, as you talk about us. I have in fact, searched the chat on nova diplo. But I'm happy to leave you guys alone, that's pretty much what I've been doing. You did after all, message me first. 

3 hours ago, Abdel said:

Nah I'm good.

I think this is the most telling part, my dude. I opened with this: 

6 hours ago, Ser_Fergus said:

I think it's about time to re-institute my 'no claims without screenshots' policy.


 


But once again; this isn't supposed to be a hit piece. This is supposed to be a standing testament to why I don't want to have to argue any more. My position is out there, and I'm tired of having statements made about my character for having them. It's on diplo gaming, I'm not harassing nova diplo with it. I'm trying to even keep it off of the salty d's. 

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'I think it's about time to re-institute my 'no claims without screenshots' policy. I reserve the right to pull quotes out of context and contextualize them in a way that suits me and my arguments. '

Fixed. 

This is a hitjob. You pride yourself on your study of law so:

1. Its the accusers job to build up a valid case, its not my job to help you
2. Its not the defendants job to supply the rope. 

That being said, please post the whole chat if you'd like an actual response. Otherwise, this is just a sorry excuse for an actual take on anything.

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8 hours ago, Abdel said:

'I think it's about time to re-institute my 'no claims without screenshots' policy. I reserve the right to pull quotes out of context and contextualize them in a way that suits me and my arguments. '

Fixed. 

This is a hitjob. You pride yourself on your study of law so:

1. Its the accusers job to build up a valid case, its not my job to help you
2. Its not the defendants job to supply the rope. 

That being said, please post the whole chat if you'd like an actual response. Otherwise, this is just a sorry excuse for an actual take on anything.

Uhh, that's not how the display of evidence goes. I've provided evidence, it is now on you to disprove that evidence. This isn't even like, pre lawschool stuff, that's law 12 stuff. 

Once again, what part of the chat? I already posted more of the chat? I'm posting more and there's nothing hugely changing here? It doesn't undermine my central points, which are: 

Arguing with you guys has been circular, and results in saying of mean things to me. Here's the entire log of what happened. You came to speak to me, ostensibly for nice reasons. Then you started to insult me after it was clear that I wasn't just gonna roll over. 

 

Spoiler

 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Why would you just come and leave?
 
 
 
If I thought trolling like this wouldve got you on the server I wouldve done it months ago
 
 
 
I wanted to apologize for giving you an impossible task that you were never going to be able to fix. It might seem that I slept the rug from underneath you but I have my reasons and I can also explain your faults and mistakes if you'd indulge me. I want to make sure that this is clear, but I didnt move forward with this project until I asked to see your manifesto (chat above) and saw nothing really substantial or ground breaking.
 
 
 
Even on the day we relaunched the community I checked diplo discord, I checked everything and it was all exactly the same
 
 
 
Imagine my shock that when I spoke to Walrus when we met up in North Carolina, he said that cniper shouldve resigned because he still acts like he runs the place.
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
The reason I joined was for Van. I have an enormous amount of respect for him, and pona had played it up to be him finally snapping. Upon reading the context, it looked like a pretty reasonable response, so I read it, read what Bors had said and then made my exit. I mean, bors says and proves otherwise for the dating of the new system; these plans were already in motion the moment Bors wrote his resignation, I've got receipts. And the concept of democracy of action is still something your server has failed to account for (As in the pastebin writeup), as you stick to the tired adage of 'the community doesn't know what it wants'. Which is why you're asking what games they want to play in a forum thread, I suppose. If you think the state of the current diplo discord is identical, I've got nothing to say about that. But CNiper acts like he runs the place, but can't act on it, as our last community meeting proved. He got slapped until he left CLs alone. After having been in templin for a few years now, I don't want to be part of a community where the administration thinks they can be more in touch with the needs and wants of a member base than the members themselves.
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 

I mean, bors says and proves otherwise for the dating of the new system; these plans were already in motion the moment Bors wrote his resignation, I've got receipts.
This is categorically false and I'd be very happy if you shared those receipts with me. Bors had no part in building up the new community as he was very busy at the time I was doing all the work.

And the concept of democracy of action is still something your server has failed to account for (As in the pastebin writeup), as you stick to the tired adage of 'the community doesn't know what it wants'. Which is why you're asking what games they want to play in a forum thread, I suppose. 
The community needs direction and a driver. The driver should take input from the passengers for the journey to be a success but too many drivers on the wheel and you crash the car, or go nowhere. At the end of the day we're a community of friends and we're friends first primarily. This isn't a nation-state or a large reddit community, its a circle of friends who own a website and discord, and those things need to be managed. I'm happy to hear you guys are keeping cniper in check, we actually do none of that in our current staff because we understand we're friends first and so whatever goes against the code of friendship also goes against the code of being a director.
 
 
 

I don't want to be part of a community where the administration thinks they can be more in touch with the needs and wants of a member base than the members themselves.
We never claimed this either. But when you manage a large community people want to do different things and go different places and you have to manage that in a way that benefits everyone
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
 
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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Thats incredibly vague
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
>Provides proof
 
 
 
>Oh that's not good enough
 
 
 
and so the circle continues
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Thats literally not proof lol
 
 
 
Lose control of the forums <> We will re-establish a new community
 
 
 
please

Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
and he is in check
 
 
 
and the community didnt know what it wanted
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Lol, no it knew better than phal did
 
 
 
as PP now proves
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
This is the problem I have with people like you
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
All three of the things you said to argue me have now been denied; and now you move the goalposts
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
You're pointing to Phal and Bors like I'm responsible
 
 
 
What have I said, what have I done?
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
They're part of your staff, aren't they?
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Yes and they operate entire differently right now
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
And from what I saw last night, I have no reason to believe that
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Bors got demoted, what beef do you have with phal now? lol
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Here's a better question; what proof do you have he's not acting like the above statement
 
 
 
he sent me an enormous paragraph a week or so ago that I still haven't responded to that basically comes down to him trying to 'logic' why what I want isn't actually correct
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
They agreed to put themselves under a system where I hold the cards and they can't sabotage the community again. They stated their grievances and they said that with me in charge they wont have anymore.
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
And one person in charge is fundamentally what I disagree with
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Bors ended up having grievances and went back on his word so he's demoted
 
 
 
Phal leads at my pleasure and consults me before every decision. He has stated repeatedly he is acting chief director until my baby is more developed and doesnt need so much of my time in care
 
 
 
We have an admin chat where 75% of our discussions are viewable to valued members, and valued members are about the majority of our membership
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
But there's no accountability! What are they supposed to do if you go off the rails on a major issue rather than the existence of a schism? Cry? Hope for the best? I don't really care what you guys do. You built your new system, and I was ground up in the gears of doing it. I'm not that bitter, but I am certainly not going to take part in it and I've given my reasons as to why
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Why is denying the schism such a big deal?
 
 
 
wait so you mean if I shitpost on DG its ok but if I shitpost on diplo its not?
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Because it's a denial of something that was blatantly obvious to 90+% of the community
 
 
 
And pulling back and saying 'it was just a meme' is the equivalent of that image of the guy going
 
 
 
"I was just pretending to be retarded!"
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
So memes not allowed, got it
 
 
 
Fergus its like you dont even know me
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Dude I read that last night
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
And that explains a lot
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
there was nothing memey about it at all
 
 
 
and everyone else was acting like it was a serious position
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
yes because I stuck to my guns
 
 
 
lol Fergus really?
 
 
 
I dont know whats worse, that I'm not allowed to troll, or my schism denial is enough for you to distance yourself as a friend
 
 
 
Lets be clear though, I went back to DG, I tried to maintain relationships
 
 
 
Cniper re-opened the drama and I ended up leaving as a result
 
 
 
I know I did you wrong but I honestly expected more when you were piecing the humpty dumpty back together again
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
It's not the schism denial that's the issue though
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
I do think its a little extreme that you view me as some adversarial leader as opposed to the person who likes to shitpost and troll
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
I think you need to reread the sentence I said
 
 
 
Every leader and position of authority will eventually come into conflict with its subordinates
 
 
 
I've had nearly four years in the army to show me that. Every leader/commander/ruler needs something to hold them in check. Nobody is perfect.
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
yes and we have that. We have rules and guidelines that every director must follow. If they dont, they go the way a la bors
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
But what holds you in check?
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
nothing
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Exactly.
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Fergus
 
 
 
Every system has a lynchpin
 
 
 
it doesnt matter how democratic they are
 
 
 
thats just how things are
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
and they shouldn't be the top of the system
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
we can delude ourselves and say they aren't, but they are
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
they should be an oversight that gets no power and no authority so that they are as far removed from the system of governance as possible
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
If people are unhappy with the way I manage, they'll leave
 
 
 
I'm unhappy because you haven't even given me a chance to prove anything to you because you have a hate boner
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
And that's exactly the attitude why I'm not there
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
So the difference is
 
 
 
you're not here for political reasons. While I wish you were for friend reasons
 
 
 
you dont think thats a little fucked up?
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Sure don't. You could join DG if you want to hang out with me
 
 
 
Or hell, I've got a bunch of other servers
 
 
 
Where I spend my time
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
I have already expressed my reasons for leaving DG and I think they're more legitimate than your reasons
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
And I just presented an alternative
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
I dont want to play footsie to maintain a relationship with you
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
So your answer is, I should have to move not you?
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
we can move to each other. I'll consider rejoining DG if you view us as friends again instead of political adversaries
 
 
 
There's currently no reason for me to be on DG but if I have more reasons to be there than not, I'll rejoin
 
 
 
part of that is having my friends actually be fucking friends again
 
 
 
and not charge me for crimes that I could possibly commit that I havent committed yet
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
I mean, it's the system not the person I take issue with
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Are you saying you sign off on every discord's community system that you join?
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
It wouldn't matter to me if it was you, phal or bors in the dictatorial position
 
 
 
I sure do
 
 
 
if I'm gonna be active there
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
Fergus, the difference between a discord 'dictatorship' and an actual dictatorship is that real life dictatorships restrict freedom of movement
 
 
 
so I'm going to retract my answer here
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Templin, I worked for a year and a bit to reform it. Even my IRL friends discord I had us unseat the guy who ran it and give it to a bot so he wouldn't abuse/mute people
 

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Abdel10/10/2019

 
 
I am held in check by the members
 
 
 
If I dont answer to the members, we wont grow
 
 
 
they will leave
 
 
 
I will lose everything, it will all be for nothing
 
 
 
Its easy as hell to make a new discord, and if I seriously fuck up, old diploers will flock to DG discord
 
 
 
excuse me if I sound frustrated but lots of diploers treat me as an adversary just because cniper needed to be taken down a notch
 
 
 
As if I'm not the same old troll shitposter
 
 
 
I do play more games now infact. Less political wrangling and swift action on complaints means I have more time to do that now, even with a baby
 
 
 
Anyways, I got a court hearing to attend, I'll catch you later
 

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Fergus10/10/2019

 
 
Alright, catch you later dude
 

October 11, 2019
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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
 
download_20191011_095627.jpg?width=400&h
 
 
6th of March.
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
I mean that’s still 2 days before you got my rules and mission statement...
 
 
 
So it was being planned before then and now you were actually taking tangible actions?
 
 
 
I’m not sure what the argument here is
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
I could've went back on it at any moment
 
 
 
It took weeks to load the database
 
 
 
It's not like I had the site built on that day I was working on other things if you remember
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
Sure, but that's still part of 'moving forward':
unknown.png?width=400&height=29
 
 
Your initial statement was fairly flawed, and moving the posts just kinda wastes both of our times
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
Actually hold up
 
 
 
Key detail here
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
We could argue what constitutes a step forward
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
Made account march 6th, free trial expired 3 days later. First purchase march 10th
 
 
 
I have all emails here
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
but the reality is that it's all part of the intent there. I really, really don't care that you guys were working on a rival project
 
 
 
spank and bors were going to try and do something with or without you
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
By that, I didnt commit financially towards this until I saw your work, but yes there was intent
 
 
 
Spank wasnt even involved at this point
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
Spank was definitely trying to do his own thing
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
Eagleman was trying to do his own thing
 
 
 
Everyone was
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
When he got banned he was rallying everyone everywhere to get bors to take the forums and build his own little kingdom
 
 
 
didn't know about eagle but that's more or less my point
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
He got banned probably a week after I started working on the site(edited)
 
 
 
Iirc
 
 
 
Actually hold up
 
 
 
The plot thickens
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
 
unknown.png?width=400&height=158
 
 
pretty sure it was actually the same day
 
 
 
or close to it
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
So I'm going off memory here and cross referencing what I have
 
 
 
I know I jumped things into hyperdrive when spank was banned because I was extremely pissed off
 
 
 
Spank also banned march 6th
 
 
 
In fact, the free trial begins 10 minutes after his suspension
 
 
 
I remember something kicked it all in high gear, I forgot I started working on a new site the minute he was banned
 
 
 
So heres the timeline that I can corroborate with emails: 1. Grumbles about whether or not we should reboot the community. Not sure, mostly demoralized and demotivated 2. March 6th spankfurt gets banned. I immediately start a free trial. 3. I check in with you to check your progress, when I dont see anything that I can bring back to the group that's substantial, we make the financial dive. 4. March 10th first purchase made on Invision
 
 
 
So that dispels the notion that we were actively moving to establish a new community the day we had left
 
 
 
And I know you said you dont care, but its important for me for you to know that I'm telling you the truth and I'm sharing everything I have
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
Sure, but that's not really my main issue: The very first statement is questionable at best and that was what I was taking issue with. I do appreciate that you consulted what I was doing, but you were also still moving forward before seeing the documentation. I would like to see the email on the tenth if you don't mind(edited)
 
 
 
whoops
 
 
 
fat fingers
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
If you want to come to your own conclusion based on my 'receipts' so be it
 
 
 
I'm just adding my context
 
 
 
But the idea of spankfurt trying to get bors to do anything apart from drinking to an early bedtime is amusing lol
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
You were on customs yeah? It probably would have happened eventually, just probably been pretty shite and burned out in a month
 
 
 
cuz spank would've memed on to his next great plan
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
Customs?
 
 
 
Trench's discord?
 

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Fergus10/11/2019

 
 
yeah
 

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Abdel10/11/2019

 
 
Yeah I was there
 
 
 
Well my Spanks own admission he only came on board once he was convinced that this was a project worth working on. Admittedly, he was gleeful that cniper was going to taste medicine in some way but he didnt ask to be part of the team until April and then joined officially in May iirc
 
 
 
He was part of the old guard staff so he already had his work cut out for him
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

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